The Hedonistic Imperative

[curiousboy]

While some people (like masochists) take the shortcut to go from pain to pleasure (opposites collide) others, like this guys here wanna go the other way around:

http://www.hedweb.com/hedab.htm

If you got good english skills and are voted to pleasure, check this one out, it`s quite interesting!

Hugs pals,

cb

[Tangerine]

Very interesting link yes indeed, my hedonist amico. But I got to take time on my siesta/nap to read it so maybe later, dôôôôôh ! (^ ^) Edited August 1, 2007 by Tangerine

[fistoboy]

very interesting, this north American approach of the matter.

For a French psychatric approach,
French psychatry school different of
DSM 4 (American Diagnostic Statistics Manual)

you could read this drug dictionnary, hopefully soon translated in
other languages

Denis RICHARD pharmacologist
Jean-Louis SENON University psychatrist
Marc VALLEUR addiction psychatrist

Dictionnaire des drogues et des dépendances
édition Larousse 2004 630 pages

25 € cheaper than a McDonald's hamburger

another track of the French cultural exception

[gninori]

an intellectual provocation
worth a debate
whether pain is avoidable and deletable or necessary in the human evolution and selection i don't know
we can hide, suppress the causes for pain, but not eradicate pain
if my hand is near a flame i get burned
i can retract the hand and that eliminates or soothes the pain
i can't always annichilate all the real and metaphorical flames burning near my life, burning my life

[bimboy]

You can, if you tamper with the wetware

[Tangerine]

Well Gni seems suffering the hot summer, Roma is a burning hell. Maybe inside Gni is burning hell too.

Let me offer you a vanilla & choclate ice cream to lick or whip to heal your various burns. (^ ^) Edited August 1, 2007 by Tangerine

[gninori]

nothing personal, even if my methaphor can remind you of my old roman ancestor


http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caius_Mucius_Scaevola Edited August 1, 2007 by gninori

[curiousboy]

Hehehe, poor old Muzio Scevola....In modern times he would`nt have needed to to that, they would have killed him before! See how things change...
In a not so near future we humans could not need pain anymore.

Evolution works with the stick and carrot principle...the hedonistic purpouse is not only eliminate the stick but to get a big carrot as well!!
Too presumtuous to try to step in God`s (evolution) shoes?
Maybe...or probably.

hugs, pals,

cb Edited August 2, 2007 by curiousboy

[Tangerine]

Happy to know that Roma isn't burning anymore neither Gninori.

And thanks to Wikipedo I learnt a lot about Caius Mucius Scaevola BBQ.

For my part I must confess that, like Mucius, I'm left handed too and have presently shingles on my back but it's okay as far I can peel my banana to heal the pain muhahaha.

CuriousBuddy, I'm not sure I could live without some pain, at least I tried to live a constant level of pleasure (sex, drugs & various mind games like most of us I suppose ) but it hadn't work for me. Always need changes in my life, good and bad things, and to go down to climb again. My 2 cent(urions). But good thread, I love Science-fiction too! (^ ^)

[gershi]

for long i wanted to reply to this thread because the idea of eliminating both physical and mental pain is interesting. as g said: worth a debate

i haven´t read the whole manifesto, just the intro. from what i understood the main idea is to eradicate pain because it´s no longer necessary and because life would be better without pain.

let me start with a quote from jim morrison:

“People are afraid of themselves, of their own reality; their feelings most of all. People talk about how great love is, but that's bullshit. Love hurts. Feelings are disturbing. People are taught that pain is evil and dangerous. How can they deal with love if they're afraid to feel? Pain is meant to wake us up. People try to hide their pain. But they're wrong. Pain is something to carry, like a radio. You feel your strength in the experience of pain. It's all in how you carry it. That's what matters. Pain is a feeling. Your feelings are a part of you. Your own reality. If you feel ashamed of them, and hide them, you're letting society destroy your reality. You should stand up for your right to feel your pain.”

yin and yang, isn´t it?


joy and pain

but what´s pain good for?

physical pain as a sign of warning (you feel pain when you hold your hand into a flame and due to the pain you retract your hand and thus avoid to get burned seriously) is inevitable imho. without this instinctive sense no being could survive unless you eradicate ALL physical dangers from this earth. even pain from let´s say headaches (unless they come from too much wine ) are necessary because physical pain not induced by a external physical influence can often be a sign for a disease not yet discovered. i agree that pain medicine is a historical invention because no one wants to get a tooth extracted without it. here the pain is totally unnecessary.


pure pain

what about mental pain?

let us hear a wise writer, william faulkner.

“Given the choice between the experience of pain and nothing, I would choose pain”

this reminds me of a conversation i had with my father when i was like 16. at that time i asked my self very often why god (if he existed, which i doubted at that time) allows pain and bad things and people killing people in the world. i had a long discussion with my father and at one point he said: "try to see this as a gift god gave to us. he gave us the gift to choose between good and bad. if he would have created us without the ability to do bad things but only to act good what else than soulless robots we would be?"

another point is that mental pain is, at least in my experience, inevitable for one´s mental development. without some girls breaking my heart i would never be able to feel the joy my wife now gives to me painful moments and bad experiences are points in your life when you stop and start to think things over. this also is true for joyful experiences and lucky moments in some degree, but the resulting development i got from bad days was much bigger than that of good days. nowadays, happily married with 3 wonderful kids i can also evolve due to joy in life. but i certainly needed the bad moments to get there.

and maybe pain is also inevitable for the whole world? albert einstein:

“If men as individuals surrender to the call of their elementary instincts, avoiding pain and seeking satisfaction only for their own selves, the result for them all taken together must be a state of insecurity, of fear, and of promiscuous misery.”

as we have some drug friendly friends in this thread: what drug experiences REALLY changed you? was it the joyful dancing induced by exctasy? or the relaxation after a fat joint? the crazy powers after a line of coke? or was it the frightening experience to be confronted with yourself after a good dose of magic mushrooms or lsd?


can you pass the acid test?

anyway, i wanna end with a quote from buddha which summarizes very good what i said in another thread (tang may know which one ):

“All that we are is the result of what we have thought. If a man speaks or acts with an evil thought, pain follows him. If a man speaks or acts with a pure thought, happiness follows him, like a shadow that never leaves him.”

peace and out

gershi Edited August 8, 2007 by gershi

[Tangerine]

Also spracht Gershithoustra.

Ditto meine freunde ! Prosit, let's have a drink at the Buddha bar !

And yes Acid and peyotl buttons changed my mind much more than weed, hash, poppers, coke, opium, booze or cornflakes. In a good way I presume 'cos I'm here. (^ ^) Edited August 8, 2007 by Tangerine

[curiousboy]

Just a thought: Pain is necessary for surviving (hand-flame) but so is fear...very most of us would be afraid to jump off a high bridge but thecnology invented bungee jumping and now few people dare and get kinda extasy (adrenalin kick) out of it...surviving.

meditate, folks, meditate...

hihihi,

cb